A Story of Relational Ministry Part 2

I was raised in a pastor’s family. My father was was a Methodist minister for 49 years. (Why not 50? Still haven’t figured that one out.) It was a good life……and a frustrating one, at times. My dad is a wonderful, caring, well rounded guy. For me he was dad. He loved me, disciplined me, played with me, talked to me. I saw him different than everyone else did. To them he was “Pastor“. He was the man that stood in the pulpit preaching the Word of God to all who were there to hear. He was different than other people. He knew right from wrong. They saw him as “chosen by God” which often put him on a pedestal. (Which, BTW, was a place he never asked to be put) Because of this conflict our life was different.

I never really had any problem with it until the holidays. Every Christmas, Easter, Thanksgiving we would sit down to dinner and inevitably there would be a knock on the door. We knew it was going to happen. Dad would get up to answer it and there would be someone looking for help. They needed 5 bucks for gas to get to the next town. They were traveling and the car broke down. They just needed a little bit to get by for a few days. As a kid I hated when someone knocked on the door that I didn’t know. But it wasn’t always for a handout. Sometimes there were those young guys in the white shirts and ties that would come by. They would come up and ask for my dad and always want to talk to him. They just wanted to talk. Every now and then they would give him some booklet or pamphlet that I never understood. I really didn’t know who they were. It was like they were with the FBI or Secret Service. They sure looked like it, except for the bicycle they were riding. The weird thing was my dad would often times talk to them and just have these nice long conversations. Really strange. I learned later that they were Mormons and that these guys were missionaries. Alot of my friends loved to have them come by because they wanted to debate with them. They believed that they needed to tell these young men about “the real Jesus Christ”, so all of the discussions became this big chess game to see who could come out on top in the end. They said that Christ would want us to tell these people the truth. They even kept their own tracts by the door so they would be ready and would take the Mormon literature out of the 7-eleven and throw it in the trash while no one was looking.

About 2 years ago my wife and I were in the front yard pulling weeds when two young men in white shirts came walking up to us. They knew who we were. Some of the people in the neighborhood had told them I was a pastor. They said they would love to talk to us sometime. They also said that if we ever needed any help around our house that they would love to give us a hand. I asked them why. They explained that they were missionaries and that was something that they do. They were nice kids. So we talked. It was good conversation. No one tried to convince me that I needed to change my beliefs. I didn’t do that to them. I told them they could come around any time if they wanted to talk.

A couple of weeks later they came back. I invited them in my house and we sat around in the kitchen and talked. They referred to themselves as “elders”. I told them that they were too young for me to call them elder, so I wanted to know their first names. With some hesitation I found out that one of them was Rico. I can’t remember the other one’s name. I told them to call me Andy. We had a real nice time talking about life, church, their families. We also made a pact that night. They could come around any time and talk to us, but we were not going to be a target for them to “convert”. Common decency then said that I would do the same with them. We would have a relationship. They agreed.

Every now and then they would come by, have a bottle of water, and talk. We laughed. They told me about the difficulties of the mission field. We really got to know each other. We would talk about God and church, but we left it open. They knew my beliefs. I knew theirs. One day they asked again if there was anything they could do to help us out. I thought about it and said “Sure. We have a church to set up every Sunday morning in the coffee shop. We could really use some help.” They thought about it and said they would. From that time on every Sunday morning these two Mormon missionaries would come at 8:30 in the morning in white shirt and tie to help this little church (that was actually Baptist at the time) get ready for worship. They met our people. They worked with them. They actually became part of our team in the morning.

As time went on we built this relationship. It was an unusual one, I’ll admit. At least it was by the standards of most churches. But one Tuesday night these guys showed up on my doorstep and asked if they could come in. After we went in the kitchen they told me that they had been through a really tough day. They had been out going to houses and had run into 4 or 5 different people that really attacked them for their beliefs. One of them, as a matter of fact, was a Baptist pastor. They were beat up (mentally). They needed a safe haven. They came to us. We sat around that night and they told me that they were being inundated with harsh questions about the Trinity and the Bible. These people were tearing them up for even being on the doorstep. Then they asked me what I believed about these things, so I shared with them my thoughts. After we got done talking one of them said that he wasn’t totally sure about his beliefs on some of these things. He said he needed to study more. I told him that was a good idea. He needed to know exactly what he truly believed. Don’t let anyone tell you what to believe. Ask God.

For the next year we had missionaries come and help our church. When one group left they would leave a note for the next ones telling them to come help us and that our house was a place of refuge. They told each other that if you ever end up in Portland, Texas you must go by and talk to Andy, that weird but cool pastor. He’ll really make you think. Every now and then a new missionary comes by to meet us with the same story.

It’s been a great relationship. I made a video for Rico’s wedding in Las Vegas this past year. He said he really wanted me to be a part of this wonderful day. I gave Clark (another missionary) some Superman videos to watch when he finally got home. He tells others to come and meet us. We gave a couch to some of the missionary girls because they didn’t have a place to sit in the little apartment they stayed in. They have brought others to meet us. All the time we’ve been ourselves and often talked about my Christ. Not because I had to. Because He is a part of my life.

My dad loves to play golf. He’ll go play a scramble any chance he gets. He once told me that he believed he had done more ministry on a golf course with a bunch of guys that were cussing, probably drinking, and hanging out than he’d done standing in his pulpit. He didn’t have to say much. He just lived it.

9 As Jesus went on from there, he saw a man named Matthew sitting at the tax collector’s booth. “Follow me,” he told him, and Matthew got up and followed him.
10 While Jesus was having dinner at Matthew’s house, many tax collectors and sinners came and ate with him and his disciples. 11 When the Pharisees saw this, they asked his disciples, “Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?”

12 On hearing this, Jesus said, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. 13 But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice.’ [a] For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”

Matthew 9: 9-13

It’s all about the relationships, I think.

A Story of Relational Ministry

I’ve got some friends that are a part of doing things in a pretty cool way. Well, I find it cool. Some of you might not, but that’s ok. Even if you don’t, though, it makes you think about what reaching out to people really means. Before I explain it let me give you a bit of foundational background.

My ministry has always been in attractional/evangelistic churches. It wasn’t until just a few years ago that I started this change towards what I considered to be a more realistic route. (I’m not saying that any certain way of ministry is absolutely right or wrong. We all do things differently. I’m simply stating that I personally needed to pursue something new and a bit more connected with who I am.) When we started moving towards the concepts of ministry being more relational than attractional in nature I found it to be a much more difficult change than I expected. We went from established programs to an organic structure that didn’t have defined edges or outcomes. Even though I felt there was a way to reach out to people that was more personal and without the hidden agendas that had always been a part of my past (In other words “The reason that I’m talking to you is I’m working towards getting you to come to church”) the journey towards a new way of thinking has had pitfalls that either scared me, confused me, or I simply fought because I had never been down this road before. How do you show someone Christ without preaching at them or coming off as weird? (Come on. Admit it! We’re all just weird Christians deep down!)

Lately I’ve been looking around at the ministry and opportunities that God keeps laying in front of us. Since I still somewhat get the “program mindframe” thing going I have to stop at times to see what’s actually happened because I’ve missed a few rest stops along the way. I was thinking about a situation that I’ve watched for about a year and 1/2 that started with some of my friends and colleagues hanging around some people who didn’t want to have anything to do with church or Christians. They saw most of us as hypocrites and judgemental. In fact, I remember statements that they were making at the time where they said that “Real Christians would never come and hang out with us because it would make them look bad”. (That’s probably paraphrased, but you get the gist:)

My friends liked these people. They didn’t like them because they knew that they desperately needed Jesus and now my friends were the only ones that could save them. They didn’t want to be around them so that they could hand them tracts or preach. They wanted to a relationship. One where they could hang out without some hidden meaning or agenda. A real relationship where people got to know each other and hung out together.

Now these people liked movies. Not G rated only talk about God movies. Regular movieplex movies. Stuff that guys talk about and laugh about. Actually, so did my friends.

These people loved to go out to eat. Wings, pizza, find a Chili’s somewhere and hang out to talk and stuff yourself. Actually, so did my friends.

These people liked to sit down and have a beer with good conversation, relaxing and talking about all kinds fo things. Some of the things were really deep. Some were very shallow, funny, and stupid. Actually, so did my friends.

These people wanted to know that the people who hung out with them were real. They wanted to know that if they liked something or didn’t like something that they were consistant all the time. They wanted to know that when you were together that you would be the same on Sunday as you were on Friday. Actually, so did my friends.

Over this long period of time I watched this relationship grow. I watched these outsiders that never really wanted anything to do with “churchies” actually start to become alot more comfortable with the God that my friends pursue. The conversations grew from mildly confrontational to a gradual realization of common ground. Eventually over time lots of questions were asked and answered about God and beliefs that wouldn’t have come out if my friends were trying to preach at them instead of loving them.

Today as a pastor I have relationships with these people that many of us would have called “worldly”. I didn’t start the relationship. Someone else did. Someone else invested time and love so that today my life is different. They didn’t try to get them saved and wait for an altar call. They didn’t continually point out the things that were messed up in their lives or take every little sin that they have and show them that God doesn’t approve.

They loved them. They lived with them, ate with them, drank with them, laughed with them, fought with them, learned from them, and showed them compassion.

They loved them.

You might think that my friends needed to evangelize these people. You might think that they needed to be trying to get them into a church where they were going to get solid Bible teaching to fix their lives. You might say that my friends should never drink with them because it’s a terrible example or say that they should have given them “good Christian alternatives” from Family Christian Stores so they would see the evil of the movie industry. I tend to see things differently, though.

I see my friends being exactly who they are supposed to be to these people. They did the things that they normally do. They didn’t act churchy simply because someone told them to. They were (and still are) real. And because they are real they were able to meet these people on common ground. Suddenly Christians weren’t a stereotype. They were honest. And because of their honesty I now have new friends that talk to ME about the God I love and the Christ that gave His life for me.

Whether you agree or disagree I so see Christ hanging out with the tax collectors and understand why He did it.

“I Found An Online Church And Got Virtually Bashed!”

As we’ve continued on this journey of discussions about what church is and where things might be going I’ve tried to watch objectively some of the sites and people who are trying to work with church concepts on the web.  The idea of a "virtual church" has become a true reality in some areas where communities are only connecting through their cable modems.  God is alive and well on the internet!

But are there any pitfalls to doing things this way?  I know that some people will say that you can’t have true unity and community on the web.  I’m not sure that’s really true.  As I’ve looked around I’ve found quite a few sites where people seem to be actually developing friendships, accountability, support groups, and more.  I’ve seen virtual bible study groups, prayer rooms, and even worship services.  Say what you will, but there are people who are being reached that don’t set foot out of their houses.  Connections are being made that are long term and real.

The interesting problem that I’m seeing, though, has been anonymity.  You can go online, say what you want, be who you want, and act how you want without anyone being the wiser.  It’s a problem on the web as a whole, with people worried about children and predators, but that’s not what actually concerns me in reference to "church".  As funny as this sounds the problem that I’m seeing actually stems from people IN the church. 

One of the things that I love to look at is blogs.  Since I write this one I like to see what other people are writing.  It’s the free exchange of thoughts and ideas.  On this blog it is now becoming a way for people to continue the dialog beyond just "going to church".  Some of the church community sites have blogs on them, alot like you see on MySpace.  People write down ideas, communicate, or just share.  Other people get to comment and share their thoughts, also.  The difference that I’ve seen on the Christian sites, though, is that people tend to respond in a different way than they do on MySpace.  It’s not uncommon to have a heated discussion/argument start up between Christians.  Now I don’t see anything wrong with free discussion.  Anyone that knows me understands that I believe it to be very healthy, not only for us but for the church as a whole.  What I’ve watched happen, though, has been people "attacking" a writer because of the beliefs, doctrine, understanding of scripture, or point of view being offered.  It’s one thing to do that in your own church (where everyone is expected to follow a certain list of beliefs and specific doctrine), but we’re talking a place where 30,000 people could be looking at any time!  We’ve taken that capability to be "unseen on the web" and turned it into the perfect place to slam our opinion into each other without investing anything personally.  It’s become "I don’t agree with you, I’m even going to speak to you in hurtful ways, and then I can go to the kitchen to get a drink because YOU AREN’T HERE!"

I was having a conversation with someone over lunch this past week where one person was saying that the reason they wouldn’t drink around people is because they don’t want to do something that would cause another to stumble.  In other words they were saying that if they drank in front of a person who had an alcohol problem that it would not be Christlike and they need to refrain from that type of behavior.  I was struck by the guy across the table who simply stated "But isn’t that what you would do whether you were a Christian or not?  I wouldn’t want to hurt someone on purpose.  Why is THAT a Christian thing?"  He was so right.  We’ve made issues like this out to be something that a Christian would do, but when it comes down to it common decency is something EVERYONE should do.  That’s what bothers me so much when I see people who are claiming to be a part of the Body of Christ slamming each other in open forums because they don’t believe EXACTLY the same thing.

Let me enlighten some of us:  I don’t believe what you believe.  I believe in God.  I believe in Jesus Christ.  I believe that the reason He died was for our sins.  That doesn’t mean that I believe what you do about preaching, pastors, baptism, drinking, smoking, church buildings, tithing, women in church, purpose driven church, emergent church, steeples, bad language, Sunday attire, Sunday school, cell groups, the Acts 2 church, Joel Olsteen, Bill Hybel, Rob Bell, coffee house churches, house churches, miracles, inherency of the Bible, Gnosticism, Calvanism, Pre-Trib, Post-Trib, Greek, Hebrew, Old Testament, New Testament, King James, American Standard, Today’s New International, Baptist, Methodist, Episcopal, Church of Christ, instruments, accapella, prayer, speaking in tongues, homosexuality, whether Judas was a Christian or not, or if Revelation is prophecy and the signs of the times are saying "INCOMING".

If the Church is going to be the Church, wherever that might be, we have got to learn to communicate in a way that is uplifting to each other.  We don’t agree with each other.  If we did don’t you think we’d get rid of the denominational crud that has created alot of this in the first place?

I’ve said things in the past that I see as being hurtful.  Sometimes I’ve thrown out a "call to arms" asking people to open their eyes and ears to what we are all doing to hurt the Body of Christ.  It’s not easy to curb this stuff.  A few weeks ago someone listening online to our discussion at church asked why we sounded angry because everyone was so passionate about what they were saying.  I love the passion.  We don’t need anger.

"In everything, do to others as you would have them do to you" (Matthew 7:12, NRSV)

Is the internet a good place to "have church"? 

Not if we don’t offer a little more Christ and alot less of us.

My Heart Is Pained. Is God’s?

Today an official press release (Read it here) was issued by the Vatican declaring that Pope Benedict XVI "has reasserted the universal primacy of the Roman Catholic Church, approving a document released Tuesday that says Orthodox churches were defective and that other Christian denominations were not true churches."  The articles on the subject go on to say that it contains segments of a 2000 document that the Pope wrote which "set off a firestorm of criticism among Protestant and other Christian denominations because it said they were not true churches but merely ecclesial communities and therefore did not have the "means of salvation."

There’s alot more to this issue and the statement that was released by the Vatican, but I’m not really going to go into the details.  If I did it might be seen that I am here to bash the Catholic church.  I’m not.  I have many friends that are Catholic and I have the highest respect for them and their beliefs.  Our ministry exists in an area that is predominantly Catholic.  Where in some parts of the south you can throw a rock any direction and hit a Southern Baptist church, here you can do it with Catholics.

That’s what grieves me.

We’ve spent so much time trying to cultivate unity, to bring wholeness to the Body of Christ.  So many times we find ourselves in the position of pointing fingers, sometimes at others and sometimes ourselves, where we see our statements and very stance to be something that defeats the cause of Christ at the same time that we are actually trying to do the right thing.

Let me clarify that statement….

There are three things that I believe are desperately need to understand our relationship with God.  They are honesty, love, and mercy. 

• It’s our honesty not only with God but with ourselves that allows us to understand faith and belief.
• It’s the love of God that we are presented with and asked to carry to others.
• It’s God’s mercy on our lives that allows us to breathe each breath, the same mercy He expects us to extend to others.

Many times I have forgotten these things.  I’ve made statements towards others that were hurtful but wrapped up in the cloth of "church".  I have demeaned my brothers and sisters by saying they were wrong when brutal honesty shows that I don’t have all the answers myself.  I have taken my very trivial understanding of God and used it as a sword to defend myself.

And in those words lies the problem………..

I keep defending myself.  Not God.  MY statements that lay in the absolutes of my understanding are created to make myself feel better about ME, not my God.  They make ME feel strong.  Not my God.  They make ME the authority.  Not my God.  Every time that I have claimed to understand the depth of the Word of God I’ve found myself swallowing the very words that I professed so eloquently. 

I am not the authority.  God is.

Today my heart is pained.  I yearn for unity.  I yearn for God’s children to lay down the weapons that have built US up so that we might embrace each others with our arms unburdened.  How can we embrace a world that needs the kindness and mercy of Christ’s touch when we can’t release the sword from our own hand?  The words I read today hit me with the force of that very blade.  I don’t actually understand why, in this day and age, we would ever commit ourselves to statements that are exclusively designed to rip apart the unity of all believers.  That is how strong I feel about these things.

Deep down I wonder how God feels about them.

Hell boy not allowed into religious school

I saw this in the morning news and just had to share it.  It’s a bit funny and yet thought provoking at the same time:

Catholic school to take in Hell boy

Associated Press
Monday, July 9, 2007

MELBOURNE, Australia — The Hell family says it may tell a Catholic school in Australia where to go after it objected to enrolling their son because of his name.

Officials said the boy had been offered a place at the St. Peter the Apostle school in the southern city of Melbourne after discussions between the principal, the parish priest and the family over his name.

But Alex Hell said he would rather send 5-year-old Max elsewhere because the school balked at taking the boy over his family name.

"We are the victims of our name," Hell said Monday.

Hell said he and his wife approached St. Peter the Apostle school about enrolling Max because the boy was being bullied at his current school because of his name, the Herald Sun newspaper reported on its Web site.

The Catholic school supported a plan to enroll Max using his mother’s maiden name, Wembridge, but then withdrew its invitation when the parents changed their minds about the name, Hell said. The school backed down and offered Max a place only when Hell took the issue to the media, he said.

"The school has turned around and said Max can go there, but why would you want to go there after being victimized?" Hell said.

The family was considering moving to his wife’s hometown to find a different school, he said.

Director of Catholic Education in Victoria state, Stephen Elder, said using the boy’s mother’s name was the parents’ idea to "assist the child in the transition of schools."

"After discussions between the parish priest and principal, St. Peter the Apostle School has made an offer of enrollment to the student," Elder said in a statement. "The school is working with the family in the best interests of the child."

Hell said he had Austrian heritage and that the name means "bright."

You feel sorry for the boy.  This isn’t his fault.  It made me start thinking about our concepts of acceptance, though.  Are there things that would make us balk because of our beliefs?  Would a person who was actually named "Satan" or "Judas" get a fair shake and equal treatment in our churches?  Makes you think.

What Is Real “Church”?

Alison and I were traveling back from Fort Worth this past weekend (where we had a great time with Stephen, Amy, and the foundation of a small football team: AKA the BOYS.  Sorry we couldn’t stay longer…) and we got to do something really cool.  We were listening to the discussion happening back at NETChurch at Espresso.Com in Portland.

We have really big ears………………..

Actually, NETChurch started streaming our audio from our discussions live each week so that people who couldn’t be in the coffee shop could still hear the teaching/discussion.  It’s been really cool and we have people that are getting online to listen each week.  Since Alison and I were going to be on the road at that time (and being the overly nosey person that I am) I spent some time fixing up my cell phone’s internet capability so that we would be able to pick up the stream in the car and listen while driving.  REALLY COOL!!  There was a drop each time we switched towers, but we were able to listen to most everything and keep up with the conversation.  Not bad for being 7 hours from home on I-35! 

Along with listening I also called in and added to the discussion with some of my own comments.  We weren’t able to be there with our family, but we still got to be included.  We’ve had this for the past couple of weeks where people could call in and share with us.  It’s hopefully about to advance as we start moving to other forms of communication like chat room, email, text messages, and such so that someone at home can still join in on the discussion in their own way.

This whole thing brought up a really interesting question for me, though.  Since we’ve had an idea of what "church" looks like for so many years (pastor preaching while everyone listens) and most of the things we are starting to do would not be considered usable in that format, then what designates "real church"?  Now if you are reading this and going to comment I would ask you to hold off on comments about "We are the church being the Body of Christ etc."  What I’m talking about is the gathering of believers that we have for so long called "going to church".  In most of the ministries that I’ve been involved with the idea of having people outside, not coming to the "church property", and even allowing them to interact while not physically attending meant that they weren’t "going to church".  As a matter of fact it was almost considered sinful because they were forsaking the gathering, so to speak.  You wouldn’t out right condemn someone for listening online, watching on tv, or tuning in on the radio, but you saw them as "Spiritual Slackers" because they couldn’t find it in themselves to get their tales out of bed to be with God.  (Of course, you never knew if they were in bed or not, but that would of course be the only thing that would cause them to not want to be at The First United Whatever Church.  Right?)

What I’m seeing now and what I’ve looked at for some time is that in the society we live in today the idea of fellowship and community is blurring into knew realms that were simply not acceptable in the past.  Generations before us would never consider a relationship with a person you didn’t speak with face to face to be anything more than just an acquaintance, if even that much.  Today there are long term relationships and blossoming romances happening with people miles apart who haven’t shaken each other’s hands.

So where does it go from here?  Is this too far?  How far should things go?  I know what my thoughts are.  I’m just curious what the rest of the world thinks about these things.

Andy